Prius
A great article on the Prius
Q: What generation Prius was recently recalled for braking problems?
There was a recent massive recall by Toyota on Prius for braking problems, in short drivers may need to hit the brake harder to achieve desirable result.
What generation Prius were those recalled?
Thanks.
A: That was for the 2010 model. However, it’s really just a feeling. The complaints all came from new drivers. Prius drivers that had a Prius previously didn’t think there were any problems. Toyota did this more as a PR measure than as a safety problem.
The way the Prius braking system works is that when a drive wheel spins, traction control takes over and stops regenerative braking. In some circumstances you can feel the transition. That feeling is what new Prius owners sometimes complain about. This can be avoided entirely by not waiting until the last second to brake. It’s similar to the complaints about power brakes when they first came out. People weren’t used to the feeling and so a number of cars with power brakes were returned. (The media and lawyers were less rabid in those days, so you didn’t see the brouhaha that you do today).
There are four braking systems on the Prius:
1. Regenerative brakes
2. Friction brakes
3. Engine brakes
4. Parking brakes
Generally braking is done with regenerative braking. The friction brakes are used:
A. When more braking force is required than the motors can provide.
B. When any of the safety devices (TC, ABS, VSC, etc.) are activated.
C. When the vehicle speed is under 7 mph.
D. When a fault is detected in the regenerative braking system.
E. When the battery has reached the maximum allowed SOC.
You have to really work at it to not be able to stop a Prius.
A technical look at the problem is here: http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/storm.html
Q: How long does a Toyota Prius battery last? How much does it cost to replace one?
Also, if there are any major repairs and/or parts needed for a Prius?
A: There are two batteries in the Toyota Prius. Which one are you asking about?
In the US, the entire hybrid system (which includes the hybrid battery pack) is warrantied for 8 years/100,000 miles.
If you are in a California-emission state, the hybrid battery pack in a 2004-2009 Prius is further covered under the CA emissions warranty for 10 years/150,000 miles. (But that is just the hybrid battery and certain emissions components, not the entire hybrid system…) Last I heard the upcoming 2010 Prius will have a longer warranty.
That’s a full warranty (not pro-rated). No cost to you for parts or labor.
(But just because the warranty is over, doesn’t mean that the item will fail! You don’t see bumpers falling off at the end of the 3 year/36,000 mile bumper-to bumper new vehicle warranty that is on most vehicles…)
If for some reason you do need to replace the hybrid battery out of warranty, do note that your Toyota dealer should offer you a $200 rebate/bounty on it, so that it gets properly recycled.
Used Prius hybrid battery packs (such as from wrecked vehicles) have been selling for less than US$1000 on eBay. Why pay a dealer the price of a new pack for a used car? Alternately, an individual bad cell could be replaced, but Toyota dealers usually prefer to replace the whole unit as it is easier than a cell by cell basis.
The price for new Prius hybrid batteries has recently come down. They used to be priced in the US at $2985, but now for the NHW11 model (US 2001-2003 model years) it is $2299 and the NHW20 model (US 2004-current model years) is $2588. http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/TYT2008092372406.aspx?ncid=12067 (Dealer labor charges (which price varies depending on where you live) for moving an approx. 100 lb. hybrid battery pack could easily add up to another US$1000 depending on your dealer and their competence…)
Average life span? no one really knows. There just hasn’t been enough of them failing for us to tell you how long they’ll last. (It is still a rare occurrence, even for the US Prius which have been out for almost 9 years now, with many over 200,000 miles without any hybrid battery issues…)
To quote Toyota’s press release:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/photo_library/display_release.html?id=20040623
http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2004062345528
How long does the Prius battery last and what is the replacement cost?
The Prius battery (and the battery-power management system) has been designed to maximize battery life. In part this is done by keeping the battery at an optimum charge level – never fully draining it and never fully recharging it. As a result, the Prius battery leads a pretty easy life. We have lab data showing the equivalent of 180,000 miles with no deterioration and expect it to last the life of the vehicle. We also expect battery technology to continue to improve: the second-generation model battery is 15% smaller, 25% lighter, and has 35% more specific power than the first. This is true of price as well. Between the 2003 and 2004 models, service battery costs came down 36% and we expect them to continue to drop so that by the time replacements may be needed it won’t be a much of an issue. Since the car went on sale in 2000, Toyota has not replaced a single battery for wear and tear.
Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?
Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 “bounty” for each battery.
However, the Prius’ 12v accessory battery (like every other car has) is used to power the accessories (lights, fans, radio, alarm, etc.) and the computers. Unlike other cars’ 12v accessory batteries, though, it is not used to start the car (so it is physically smaller and therefore easier to drain), but it does start the computers. The computers open a relay that hooks up the 200+v hybrid traction battery, and it is really the hybrid traction battery that starts the gasoline engine (using an electric motor). It is possible to drain the 12v accessory battery (leave the headlights on overnight, leave the car undriven for over 2 weeks, etc.), just like on any other car. With age (5+ years, usually) or repeated drainings/misuse, you’ll probably need to replace it eventually. AGM style, small physical size, and odd posts, mean that you’ll probably have to go to the dealer, $150 – $300 (depending if you need an adapter).
there’s a lot of myth, urban legend, and misinformation out there on hybrid vehicle batteries and vehicle production, thanks to a flawed marketing paper by CNW and a poo
Q: How to get the Toyota hybrid Prius battery changed and how much does it cost?
The main battery of my Prius 2001 is gone and I don’t trust Toyota’s answer for this issue.
A: Are you having problems, If so it is the first one I have seen or heard of.
I have worked on Prius with over 150,000 miles that have had no problem with the batt.
If you do need to replace the Batt you will need to go to a Dealer, The aftermarket shops will have to get the batt from the dealer and mark it up anyway if they know how to do it without killing themselves, there is enough power in a new Batt to kill you.
Q: What’s the difference between Toyota Prius packages?
I want to buy a used Toyota Prius and I need to find some information on the packages.
A: The best resource for you is the Toyota.com website, but in lieu of that here is the basics…
Base Prius – no smart-key, no VSC(Vehicle Stability Control), no cruise control
Most common is Package #2 – Cruise control, Heated outside mirrors, upgraded stereo with 6-speakers, smart-key system, and in current year and late 2008 models, backup camera with VSC.
Once you get package #5 or 6, you get the DVD navigation system with an upgraded audio system, HID lights with package #6 including Leather.
Hope this helps.
Ken
Q: Do you think the runaway Prius driver is a scam artist?
I heard he filed for bankruptcy with $700,000 in debt and missed 5 payments on his Prius. He also owns a sex swinger website and is involved in porn.
And the fact that NHTSA found nothing wrong with his Prius.
If he is not planning to sue Toyota why did he hire a lawyer????
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
A: If you listen to the 911 call, and then notice the stop did not occur until the t.v. cameras were on the scene it makes you think that it might have been a set up, and he faked the run away.
Q: How many miles does the hybrid car Prius have before melt down?
What is the average span of a Prius; for example the 2008 version?
A: As others have said, the Prius is a bit too new to say exactly. The oldest Prius in North America was put into service in late 2000 and there weren’t all that many imported during the first three years (about 53,000 total). Even so they are standing quite up well with most the 2001s still on the road and many without any major problems (The 2001 is the year with the most transaxle and traction battery failures). My 2001 has had trouble free driving for 80,000 miles but there are cars with 200,000-300,000 miles on them–these are mostly in some kind of commercial service such as taxis.
The change in the 2004 model year was a significant change with fifty chapters of changes documented in the New Car Features manual. The production volume went up and there are now well over one million 2G Prius (model years 2004-2009) in service with very few problems. It appears right now that the 2G Prius is just as reliable as any Toyota and that 300,000+ miles shouldn’t be a problem if regular maintenance is done. My 2004 has 105,000 trouble-free miles on it now.
The Prius has several things going for it to reduce maintenance costs and increase vehicle life:
1. The engine never experiences a cold start. This is because there is no starter motor. What happens is the engine is spun up without fuel or spark to a speed where it can run on it’s own (900-1000 rpm). Then fuel and spark are added to two cylinders and shortly after to the second two.
2. The automatic transmission with it’s hundreds of parts have been replaced by a simple planetary gear system similar to a differential.
3. There are no clutches or fluid couplings (a fluid coupling is the automatic transmission equivalent of a clutch). The Prius never shifts out of gear.
4. Most of the braking is done by the motor/generators rather than by using the friction brakes. This increases the lifespan of the brakes and rotors.
5. The vacuum operated systems have been replaced by electric motors reducing the amount of hoses required.
6. The a/c compressor is electric rather than being run directly from the engine. This means when the a/c is turned on there isn’t a drag on the engine. Because it’s electric it speed can and does vary to suit the amount of cooling needed.
7. The a/c compressor is a scroll type rather than a piston type which uses less power for a given amount of cooling.
8. The engine rpm is not tightly coupled to the vehicle speed. This allows the engine to run free at all times and never lug. Maximum rpm is controlled by the computer (the engine ECU).
Q: How long do the batteries in a Prius last and how much does it cost to replace them?
I am considering buying a Prius. I don’t mind paying the extra cost over a car the same size when buying one. However, even though the gas mileage and cost saving is a great plus, will the eventual cost of replacing the batteries negate the gas saving costs.
A: 10 years 150000 mile warranty from Toyota. In taxi trials the batteries have racked up between 300K and 500K miles without needing a replacement. The battery pack consists of several cells, so in the event that one cell goes bad, you dont replace the whole battery pack. The reason the batteries last so long, is this: batteries don’t like to be fully charged or fully discharged, this shortens their life, if you go between 30% and 70% of battery’s capacity, the last indefinitely, the on board computer in the Prius is calibrated to maximize the battery life.
Q: How many batteries are used in the Toyota Prius Hybrid? What is the battery voltage and current at start up?
Are the Prius batteries made with conventional lead plates and sulfuric acid with multiple cells rated at about 2 volts per cell?
A: Which model Prius? NHW10, NHW11, or NHW20?
Which battery? The 12v accessory battery is a standard conventional lead-acid battery, but it is an AGM about the size of a motorcycle battery. It is only used to power the computers and run the accessories (radio, clock, fans, etc.). Once the computers are on, they flip a relay which connects up the hybrid traction battery. The hybrid traction battery is what starts the gasoline engine through one of the electric motor-generators, and also provides power for electric propulsion.
The hybrid traction battery is NiMH (nickel-metal hydride), NOT lead-acid. They are built by Panasonic EV Energy Corp. in Japan: http://www.peve.jp/e/shouhin.html
The differences in the battery pack designs and voltages are highlighted on this page:
http://john1701a.com/prius/prius-history.htm#Generations
The author calls the NHW10 model the “Original,” the NHW11 model the Classic, and the current NHW20 model the “Iconic.”
You may want to read more through the Toyota training document “Hybrid03 High-Voltage battery.pdf” found at http://www.autoshop101.com/autoshop15.html#Hybrid
For the NHW11 and NHW20 Prius (the models sold internationally), the hybrid battery pack is comprised of many prismatic modules (28 or more). Each prismatic module is made up of six 1.2V individual NiMH cells, so each module is 7.2V.
Toyota is experimenting with lithium-ion LiO packs for future Prius releases, but none are commercially on the market yet…
Q: How much does it cost to get a Toyota prius cost to service?
I wanna get a toyota prius but my fiance doesnt want me to get one because it might cost too much to service since its a highbrid. How much does it actually cost to service it?
A: hybrid*
and.same.as.any.other.car
Q: How much money in gas could I save by getting a Toyota Prius hybrid?
I am trying to figure out if I should get a Toyota Yaris sedan or spend the extra $10,000 and get a Prius. Will the prius pay off in the long run?
This would be a second car. We are going to get the prius or the yaris.
A: It takes 10 years for a Prius to break even. Hybrids arent the best technology for better fuel economy anyway. A clean diesel can get 60 mpg easy, while costing thousands less than a hybrid system. Diesels are most common in European cars, and manufacturers like Volkswagen sell them in the US as options. The Prius is a much better car than the Yaris, although I would not suggest either mainly because of Toyotas falling quality. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/10/toyota_quality.html
The Yaris was called a “disappointment” by ConsumerReports, which has long been criticised for being biased towards imports. The Yaris is the ultimate penalty box. A good medium between the two cars is the upcoming Saturn Astra. It has been rumored to have a hybrid option, and if it does will be much more affordable than a Prius. The upcoming Saturn Astra is light years ahead of the Yaris. It is a rebadged Opel Astra, one of the most popular cars in Europe. Nothing will be changed from the original Opel in its transition to a Saturn. It will be made in Belgium and imported into the US. Here are some reviews of the Astra.
http://www.caranddriver.com/autoshows/12137/2008-saturn-astra.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/12767/upfront-news-2008-saturn-astra.html
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/08/21/candd-crowns-saturn-astra-safest-car-under-25k/
http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/12859/2008-saturn-astra.html
The Astra has already proven to be a great car, since it has been on sale in Europe since 2004. The Astra is more refined than the Yaris, not even going into its driving dynamics. Compare these pictures:
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/MediaNav/year=2008/make=Saturn/model=Astra/firstNav=Gallery/photoId=20142846#
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/MediaNav/styleId=100919847/firstNav=Gallery#
The gas mileage should be about the same on the Yaris and Astra, since every other car currently in that segment is within 2 mpg. Here is a side to side comparison of the Yaris VS the base Astra. Just look at the features, the Astra is hands down a better package, not including the longer warranty and better saftey.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/nvc/edmunds/VehicleComparison?styleid=100919847&styleid=100913114&maxvehicles=5&refid=&op=3&tab=pricing
GM is now on top of JD Powers reliability/quality ratings with Buick. The tests were on cars from 2004 to see how they held up. This does have some faults since Saturn has completley overhauled their lineup, and currently the oldest car in their lineup is the 2006 Sky.
Q: How often does a Prius need oil changes?
I earlier asked a question about buying tires and one of the answers (by Professor Prius) implied that he changes his oil every 3000 instead of 5000 miles like the manual says to do. I assume he would know better than I what to do, so I’m asking if I should switch to that schedule as well. Also, should I switch to the tune-up every 9k while I’m at it?
A: Hi,
I’ll be happy to clarify my maintenance schedule answer. I’ll say what and why I do what I do, and then tell you why you would want to go with shorter than 5k oil changes.
The Prius, to maintain the warranty, must have oil and oil filter changes every 5000 miles, and larger services (such as air filter changes) every 15,000 miles.
I personally change my oil in both Toyotas every 3000 miles and rotate the tires every other oil change (every 6000).
I do stick with the 15,000 mile intervals for the bigger 15k services.
I also go to my local dealership for all service, because I know the techs, the owner of the dealership, and everyone in-between.
Besides knowing who is touching my vehicles, from the techs to the support and detail personnel, there is another very important reason I bring my vehicles there.
The owner personally spent over $70,000 in training and equipment from January to April this year alone, getting each of his techs to Master level or beyond, in multiple cases.
I simply cannot find that level of commitment to excellence and access to the best equipment anywhere else.
Now, why would an owner go with less than the manufacturer’s 5k oil change interval?
If you look at the maintenance schedule book that came with your Prius, there is a statement that the 5k is a recommended interval, it is not the only interval.
If you are driving in extreme conditions, than your oil will break down sooner. Extreme includes very cold or very hot (or big swings in) temperature, stop and go driving that makes up a large part of your commute, sustained high speeds, or any other driving that puts a continuous strain on your vehicle.
The other big issue is the average driver puts on 1000 to 1250 miles each month (12,000 to 15,000 annually).
At 1000 miles a month, that means an extra 2 months between a 3k and a 5k change.
If there is a problem, it can be caught 2 months sooner if the owner doesn’t notice it.
I have seen many problems in the last five years that could have been lessened or eliminated if the owner had come into the dealership sooner.
Examples include oil plugs/pans that were cross-threaded by a cheapy lube and a broken tire air diffuser (little black plastic strips in front of each tire that break up the air that dams up in front of each tire). That broken diffuser was costing that owner 1-2 mpg that he couldn’t explain until I saw it after one of my classes (lucky timing on both our parts).
Oil, as expensive as it is, is still cheap insurance for your vehicle.
I know people have bad experiences with certain dealerships and they think that all dealerships are out to rip them off.
I’ve experienced it with dealerships in Chicago before, but I’ve also found really good independent shops that do solid work.
It is against the law to automatically void your warranty because basic services like oil changes were done outside the dealership, as long as the outside agency (or yourself) did not cause damage and you are sticking to at least the minimum service intervals and recommendations.
The important thing is to keep all your receipts and to keep an eye on your vehicle yourself.
I know there will be people who say I’m doing too much, doing it too often, paying too much (I’ve checked and I know I’m not), etc. but those people don’t pay my monthly car note.
I know what I’m getting for my money, and I know how well I’m being taken care of.
Q: How far can a Honda Civic and a Prius go on Electric mode?
How many miles can a Honda Civic and a Prius go when the battery is fully charged. (civic hybrid and prius hybrid car)
A: Hi,
stay with me and I’ll give you the full answer.
Actually, both vehicles are “full hybrids” meaning they can run under electric-only mode for short distances at low speeds.
The Civic was just upgraded to a full hybrid in 2006, but the Prius has always been a full hybrid.
The Prius system will take you further, up to 25 miles in stop and go traffic, with the regenerative braking system. And the Prius will go faster, up to 25 mph, with careful acceleration.
The Civic system is not able to do either of those marks. It uses Honda’s hybrid system called the “Integrated Motor Assist” and it’s mostly designed to boost the gas engine, not run on electric mode for any length of time.
Essentially, you have two different vehicles. The Prius is a mid-sized sedan that is more equal to a Camry or Accord for features, technology, price, and comfort. The Civic is a compact and is on the same level as a Corolla for features, tech (excluding the IMA), price and comfort.
Not to say either is better than the other for what they do. They are just different, just as the Civic is to the Accord or the Corolla is to the Prius.
One last note, Prius sold in Europe and Asia come with an “EV” mode button. Pressing that button disables the gas engine for city driving. That is where the 25 mph/25 miles distance come into play.
We don’t have that ability here in the US because our driving conditions are too different from theirs to justify having it here. Basically, we drive longer distances in our urban environments and Americans drive faster over those long distances and would overcome the EV mode too easily. (We also don’t get the auto parking option that the Prius’ over there have (similar system on Lexus GS here in the US) because thier parking is so much tighter there on average.)
The Civic isn’t available with an EV mode at all, here or there.
BTW, to answer the previous post…
Computer system updates / changes / etc. for the Prius are covered by Toyota during the 8 year or 100,000 mile warranty period. And a safe bet would be that Toyota would update your Prius any time an update would be needed after that.
Every manufacturer has computer upgrades, even Volkswagen.
And as far as less parts go, Prius have no throttle cables (electronic acceleration), no steering pumps or steering belts (electronic steering), no starters, no alternators, no distributors, each cylinder is individually controlled with it’s own fuel injector, a sealed CVT so no regular transmission, and with the regenerative barking system, you should never have to replace the brake pads because the generator does almost all of your braking.
Anyway, if you’d like any more details, read my other posts or contact me.
Q: Does the Toyota Prius really pollute more that it saves?
I heard that the Prius’ battery or something causes more environmental harm than helping it, and that the Hummer is more cost/waste efficient that the Prius. Is this true?
A: Utterly false.
That allegation was brought forth by CNW Marketing (who markets for GM no less, so there is an ulterior motive to plug the Hummer and bash the Prius), which has been repeatedly discredited. They cited pollution around the Sudbury nickel mines in Ontario Canada, but that plant had been polluting the environment for 30 years before the first Prius ever came onto the market.
Consider this: The U.S and Canadian governments use more nickel to mint its coins every year than Toyota uses to make Prius batteries. Yet nobody is screaming bloody murder about how your coins are causing environmental harm.
How about the aircraft jet engines, which needs high-temperature nickel alloys by the ton for its compressor fan blades, or nickel stainless steel by the ton for building construction? The amount of nickel used in all the Priuses made to date is miniscule compared to all the other uses for Nickel.
The CNW Marketing report has been refuted by organizations like the Argonne National Laboratory and the Pacific Institute. It’s not worth the paper it’s printed on.
Funny that years after CNW came out with their tissue of marketing lies, their client GM decided to jump on the hybrid bandwagon with their 2-mode hybrid system that cost a billion dollars to develop.
Q: Where can i get my prius tweaked professionally which allows it to have around 100mpg?
Where can i get my prius tweaked professionally which allows it to have around 100mpg?
A: Well, with some simple maintenance (proper oil fill levels and inflated tires), removal of extra weight from the car (don’t carry stuff you don’t need), and some precise driving you can get 100mpg on an unmodified Prius.
http://www.hybridcars.com/gas-saving-tips/maximizing-mileage-toyota-prius.html
http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5155
If you are asking about a PHEV modification, which could get you in the 100mpg range…
There are no commercially-available plug-in hybrids on the market so far. (So you cannot plug them in, other than the same gas station pump that most other regular cars use.) Some hobbiests and aftermarket companies have been altering a few hybrids (Prius, Ford Escape Hybrid/Mercury Mariner Hybrid) to make them plug-in capable. Typically this requires adding additional hybrid batteries, besides the ability to charge off the mains.
For more information, as well as companies that’ll do the work, check out http://www.calcars.org/vehicles.html
There’s also this recent article: http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/may08/6174
For cost reasons, unless you are a fleet owner or other high-mileage driver it probably will not be worth the cost of the PHEV conversion for you. (Conversion pricing is high due to startup costs and low volumes, besides the pricing of the needed additional battery packs.) Emission benefits, if any, depends on the source of electricity in your region.
To note, converting to a PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle) does not reduce the vehicle’s range. It gives the owner the option to recharge the (newly added larger) hybrid battery pack at night (cheap electricity and off-peak electric load which would otherwise be lost). The vehicle would run for a certain distance (longer than stock) on the stored electric power alone, and when the battery pack is depleted to a certain point the vehicle reverts back to its original hybrid self and runs on a combination of the gasoline engine (which will also recharge the battery) and the electric motor. A PHEV would add a greater all-electric range to the existing hybrid, besides the ability (but not the requirement!) to plug it into an electric source.
Toyota is working on creating a PHEV Prius, and has some test vehicles on the road. Supposedly for the 2010 US model year, and only for fleet customers at first (so not general retail).
http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2008011405523
http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2007072552930
http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/news/07/0725.html
video: http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/tech/environment/phv/conference/index.html
Q: How do you fold down the back seats in the toyota prius liftback?
Also, do you think i’ll be able to fit two bike boxes into the prius with the seats down (the boxes are each 52×29x9 inches)?
A: There is a button on the top outside of the seat, press it and fold the seat dow,.
I do not have a Prius here to mesure and see if the box will fit sorry.
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